Dr. Oz Is A Pussy

Not a proponent of “alternative” medicine, but your views on acupuncture are not quite accurate. See, e.g. http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v13/n7/fig_tab/nn.2562_F1.html

Actually, the ancient Chinese did believe that all skin points on the body are fair game for acupuncture, especially if they exhibit point tenderness, so called “a shi” or “ouch” points. The meridian points are simply those that connect to other points with some kind of channel flow, while all the other points are used locally for pain. So there’s no such thing as a non-acupuncture point.

Secondly, it’s impossible to design a sham acupuncture study, because even non-penetrative stimulation of the skin qualifies as a form of acupuncture, such as the Japanese method of Toyohari acupuncture. So there’s really no such thing as sham acupuncture.

Study design challenges aside, there are great studies in peer reviewed journals that show not only that it works, but that it works better than a lot of other interventions, and now we know how it works too.

Recent studies show acupuncture trumps physiotherapy and “sham acupuncture,” which is really just non-meridian acupuncture,or low back pain. (Leibling, 2002), found here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11932074

We not only know conclusively that acupuncture works, but we also have pretty clear information on how it works. The most current model shows that it works by affecting ion channels in fascia and other dense connective tissue, which in turn decreases inflammation, increases blood flow, decreases sympathetic nervous system activation while increasing parasympathetic activation. (Oschmann, 2009)

Because the needles are stainless steel, local cell depolarizations are also seen, which creates a whole cascade of other beneficial effects. http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/65299732/physiology-cell-biology-acupuncture-observed-calcium-signaling-activated-by-acoustic-shear-wave

I work in medicine in the fertility field, and I’ve seen a huge shift in the last few years. We have mainstream, totally western OB’s referring women on the regular to acupuncture to turn breech babies based on a solid peer reviewed study that it works (American Journal of Obstetrics & Gynecology, Sept. 2009), found here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19733275

Massage is great, too, I get a deep tissue massage every week from one of my dames, and it’s awesome. It has many beneficial effects, but it doesn’t do the same as acupuncture, which in most areas is usually way cheaper than massage for repeat visits.

You seem like a scientific guy. If you’re willing to take the red pill on dating and sexual matters, you ought to really think about opening your mind to other possiblities in medicine and science too. It’s only your biases that hold you back from greater levels of understanding.

Good stuff revo. Yes, I’d challenge many on this board including roosh to take the red pill when it comes to health, wellness and medicine.

Haha, well, I expected nothing less than some ad hominem and more appeal to authority, and look what you provided. Surprise, suprise, Haters gon’ hate. Your thick-headed lack of reading comprehension is quite entertaining. Your references are not impressive, they just show you’re looking for and finding references that share your simple-minded, uneducated worldview.

It’s interesting to note that in your appeal to authority you reference skeptics who are “professionals way more qualified than either of us.”

First of all, speak for yourself, I have a master’s degree in physiology. Secondly, you want to appeal to authority, you picked the wrong commenter to foist your simpleton opinions and poor sources upon. The scientific study of bioenergetic medicine was pioneered by one of the greatest biochemical scientists of the last three generations, the great Albert Szent-Gyorgyi, a PhD biochemist and biophysicist who received a nobel prize for the discovery of vitamin C, in 1937. He established a research program at Woods Hole, MA that has demonstrated many, many evidence-based methods to measure the changes in biochemistry and biophysics that occur not only in acupuncture, but in many other “alternative” modalities. Those include galvanic skin response, nitric oxide expression, histamine response, cell depolarization, biophotonic effects, and dozens of other scientific phenomenon *that are measurable.* Emphasis for the scientifically retarded.

You can elide these things as folk medicine or mysticism or pseudoscience if you wish, but it doesn’t make it any less true that there’s real, solid biomedical research demonstrating its mechanisms, effectiveness, and safety. It may have been folk medicine and “qi” for five millenia in China, but it’s 100% scientific method, verifiable, quantifiable biophysical science today in the US.

There’s top level research performed, and ongoing at many major universities on the subject. At UC-Irvine, Cho et,al, 1998, determined that acupuncture on points on the foot associated with the eyes created direct, significant, positive, and instantanous effects on the occipital cortex of the brain. That’s the visual cortex for those who’ve not studied cerebral anatomy.

The evidence is out there, you’re simply too closed to look at it. Again, that’s your selection bias. You look for evidence that supports your position, and find it in the form of uninformed opinion of “skeptics” but refuse to look at the other evidence. ASF linked to a study above in Nature, a reputable journal, and you apparently lacked the inclination or the comprehension ability to grasp its significance.

Far from taking it personally, I find it entertaining to joust with fools such as yourself, because I was once one. I’ve been in the medical field for 15 years in various forms of practice and administration. I began in this field and still am a die-hard scientist, a firm believer in scientific method and a student of the scientific method for over 20 years. My mind was as closed as yours is, because that’s what “science” people do–remain skeptical until evidence demonstrates. But some people get stuck in the skeptic mode.

I had to learn the hard way, to be confronted with overwhelming evidence of effect and efficacy. I’m attempting to do that for you, and for the benefit of other readers. Consider it a favor from your better, or a form of my community service to the Red Pill community that has done so much for mey. I give back by doing the same as someone once did for me. But all I can do is show you and everyone else the studies and explain the physiology. You, or anyone else, has to read and comprehend the studies and the various models, before you can integrate this information into your worldview.

It took me a long time as a young man to grok the fact that the body is as much of an electromagnetic mechanism as it is biochemical. Dietrich Klinghardt, MD, A famous German physician who has been a mentor to me, has said repeatedly that Americans and most western Euro’s are overeducated in chemistry, and drastically undereducated in physics, and thus any attempt to explain physiology through the lens of biophysics in the west is doomed to failure. Your closed mind is a testament to that.

And as for your last points, they are laughable indeed. I don’t spend money on natural medicine therapeutics, I make money on it. I’ve probably cleared an extra $30k in consulting fees in the last couple years directly related to the subjects at hand. When I want to receive these therapies, I get the professional courtesy visit, which is to say they are free, gratis, nada, zippo, zilch out of my pocket. Many of the practitioners I receive from are young attractive women, and not a few of them I know on a more intimate level.

The economic question brings up a larger point–the question of legitimation of medicine. Who legitimates medicine? It’s an important question to think about.

While some governmental approval is needed, once that’s achieved, and it has been, It doesn’t matter in the least if dipwads such as yourself and other “skeptics” out there don’t believe in any given therapy. The NIH has already endorsed this therapy as having evidence to support its efficacy for a number of common disorders, and has issued similar position statements regarding dozens of other related treatments. Moreover, public opinion and widespread use of these therapies are the ultimate arbitrager of whether they’re worthwhile or not, as the market won’t support therapies that aren’t worthwhile for long.

The Eisenberg study (1992, look it up) showed that consumers spend more money out of pocket on natural medicine than they do on conventional medicine. People vote with their pocketbooks, and this field is growing in double digits every year.

As the business of natural medicine is growing in leaps & bounds, so does my own consulting business. I’m consulting right now on what will likely be the largest integrative therapy center in the western US, a multimillion dollar project with big VC behind it that will have MDs, PTs, acupuncturists, even natural dentistry, along with yoga, massage, and a dozen other natural therapies. I’ve been involved with 5 other similar though smaller projects over the last decade, and all of them have been winners. One my consulting clients, an MD, wrote a book with a celebrity on natural medicine, both made bank on that, I provided some back-end supply chain support. If making money is “victim thinking” in your book, I’ll take it, and the paycheck. Yah, I’m a poor, deceived victim of natural medicine, and also of your mean diatribe, you big meanie. Ha!

And finally, if it assuages your ego to believe it’s not manly to receive acupuncture, be my guest. Know that men far more manly than yourself get acupuncture on the regular, including a ton of professional athletes from many sports. Pros use this stuff because it works. I happen to know the practitioner in LA who treats quite a few Lakers, and I know for a fact that Kobe Bryant gets it all the time and relies upon it to keep him in top shape. Look it up, it’s not a secret. Know that it’s far easier to be an internet cynic, an internet hater, than to go out and do some cool shit like win some basketball tournaments, or make some money helping people with effective, safe therapeutics that doesn’t have side effects or come with a black box warning for increased suicide risk. But somebody’s got to do it.

“TL:DR” Spoken like a true winner. Way to show intellectual capacity. You speak well for the entire “skeptic” community.

Good post. I like that study.